Get yourself a formal or informal mentor who is already doing what you want to be doing. You will make your management look good and the levels will come. I was always righteously indignant when I encountered asshats and incompetence and I would rail against the losers to anyone who would listen, and then I would do whatever it took to drive my agenda through to completion.I focused 100% on producing vast quantities of superior quality work -- which endeared me to my management chain and opened up a crap-ton of doors at those early levels. You should be on the same side. Success breeds Success: I remember reading an article about an extensive study to determine the best predictor of a stocks price tomorrow. I myself am a L62 on the cusp of a midyear promo after 18 months. That is one aspect where they are forced to build fake relationships with directors and GMs to get promoted and unfortunately those who maintain good relatiship with them get promoted. My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65. Find the right team and manager.2. It appears on 6.3% of resumes. The person who puts you up for promotion and has promotion conversations with your skip level. Thanks for starting this. I asked them direct questions about what I needed to do to get the next promotion. RIF in the SQL team? how to check hall sensor on samsung washer; marriott grande vista grande cove menu; what happened to josh's partner bill on moonshiners; are goldfish crackers good for an upset stomach Satya Nadella. Being constantly re-orged is bad. Is this confirmed? Might as well fire those guys. Microsoft is so unique (and not in a good way) that you need to have blogs like this and focus on managing your career inside the hobbesian nightmare, rather than making good and cool software. The estimated total pay for a Senior Director at Microsoft is $500,742 per year. Understand not just what needs to happen, but WHY. It's really not that complicated. Aren't those the things you are best at? Sorry for going dark for so long. Titles are important, and dont let anyone make you believe otherwise. But, if you have the possibility of finding a position that you will really enjoy, where your goals and those of Microsoft are fairly close, then your long-term potential will be higher. I know devs who got there without doing anything substantial but their manager was nice and there was no competition.In short, Level 63 to me is not important and I really dont respect 63s unless they I've interacted with them.Level 65+ is another story and are devs who have the stuff almost always.- Someone at Level 62. What I've learned is be very, very specific on your commits and accountabilites. While a manager can help coach you, and you can follow the advice in this post and comments (most of which are great, by the way), you have no way of knowing if there are 0 or 10 people also on the team doing the same things, ahead of you for the limited number of promotions available. Saturday, November 15, 2008. Eng, Go to company page I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. If the answer is regularly a 'yes', then this clearly is an indication that you are ready. But on balance mgrs at MS get things right a lot more often than they get them wrong or we wouldnt be one of the most highly capitalized companies in the history of biz. and is willing to take a chance on someone whose interview indicates they are ready for next level. Don't try to counter with stock levels argument as that is more convoluted, and given the current economic debacle's effect on our stock price..I understand that folks want to be Senior this, and Principal that but the truth is that it is mostly a fetish for some big sounding titles. He/she and you should know exactly what you need to do to get to the next level. senior director - $446k . That's awesome. If you're not there yet and your boss was asked that question by your skip-level-boss, what is your boss's answer? Tips for getting them on your side:1) Ask for Exceeded. They are 100% star material. Last August (different group), I received a dreaded "Limited II", in spite of my manager telling me that he didn't actually think I was in the "bottom 10" at Microsoft, but that the devil made him do it (so to speak) and that it was a "no-brainer" for him. Then do it.Yeah yeah, that's an oversimplification. I haven't seen one single person getting hired below L63 in my group during last year. Hired at L58 in 2000 - Currently L62 and the last 2 promos were at 18mo intervals. Absolutely not Definitely yes 3 1 David Lean Worked at Microsoft (company) (1990-2009) Upvoted by Jack Schofield , Computer journalist who has covered Microsoft for 35 years. A mistake was a huge cost. Nothing you do is good, all you get is criticism. Finally I got involved and had a one/one with the employee during which I asked him why do you continually insist on doing Y when your mgr asks you to do X? I nearly fell of my chair when he said because I want to get promoted and I know that to get promoted I need to do Y. I think one of the things that is frustrating is how opaque the promotion system really is. A mentor helps tremendously. You'd do well to read it again:Success in business comes from serving your customers, not about beating your competition. All the money making groups cut 10% of the work force. Should I trust my manager or is this just one more of his demonstrations of poor management skills? Here's how to find it. Find a way to make or save them money. Will a team that needs exactly the skills and interests that you have pass on you because of some HR guideline? I've been struggling with the elusive 59 -> 60 move for quite some time. As for my own history, successful strategies have followed 3 major buckets:From 59 --> 62 (I started as a 10 in the old system) I simply kicked ass and took no prisoners. L68 is partner, or you may see GM. I suspect they'll make it someone's job to fix it, because it is widely held as a good idea in the company right now. The general consensus is why get rid of someone who is happy doing their job and can do it better than anyone else. To know the real title you have to use headtrax and look for the Standard Title of the position. as many others posters said: if you are worry too much about promotion chances are you will keep worrying. Next, advertise your new branching strategy in your peer groups. Mar 26, 2018 2 If you think of it as "How can I do better than my manager?" I came in at L61 2+ years ago. I was let go from Microsoft recently. You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer. Related Searches:All Senior Director Salaries|All Microsoft Salaries. You can switch jobs internally and get leveled up (typically 6-12 months after) - but make sure you have the conversation with the manager as to what is the expected level and what is the cap. I suspect the former because there's no point in a manager telling you that you got promoted when you didn't. Yes, "soft skills" count.I'm pleased that someone said it.There are a collection of skills that are difficult to quantify that are absolute necessities to succeeding at higher levels. But it is also clear that there are places at Microsoft where these skills are not required until higher.I have a 62 test somehow make it to dev with mediocre dev skills, social skills limited to indifference or hostility, who managed to delegate most of the hard work to a smart kid hired to work with him and he made it to 63. Third, working on that weakness DAILY (but not exclusively) until they overcome it. I know to a certain degree that's all of us - but, if you're dealing with 2-3 a year or every other year then you need to get out. There are 12 Directors in my sub and over 1000 people all scoping to one day be a Lvl 63reality, most people will leave before they get that far. Technical excellence alone will not generate success.Authority. (Summarized: Don't ever let your boss be frightened that you'll make him/her look bad. I made it to L63 in a year (I was probably under leveled when I arrived). For instance, software development engineers generally come in at Level 59,. How bad is this? But the people in the team are below 65. It is my observation that the most common place we see disillusioned learners in the product groups at MS is at level 62. What are the levels for non eng roles? Everything else is irrelevent or works against your promotion. These are sole individual personal points-of-view and the posts and comments by the participants in no way represent the official point-of-view of Microsoft or any other organization. If you are within striking distance of level 63 in the next few years, then consider yourself VERY fortunate. This is a good list. You almost always have to earn it. You have to enjoy it, or else it'll come across as insincere, and you'll do a half assed job. L65 here, worked up from L59 (actually, 10 in the old system).The key is always to keep your eye on the goal. Apple should in no way be throwing stones at Microsoft in this regard. Microsoft Salary. Do a great job and you are likely to revise their expectations for the following cycle. Director can be applied to L65 or L66. This is obviously difficult to manage. Therefore, our need for people who can collaborate across their own team, across disciplines, across org boundaries is greater than ever before. I'm there. Bowl Leader. similar to maybe how EY says senior manager is Director (pwc, kpmg) equivalent. weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Think that's known as a "RIF" not a "layoff" butwhat do I know? 1. Here is a nice place to start :-)http://guestgame.com/. Add your salary anonymously in less than 60 seconds and continue exploring all the data. VPs may well number in the hundreds at a huge place . The position entails teaching an introductory physics sequence, upper-level physics courses, and related labs. Who da'Punk How do you get the right job/work that will make the impact. If your boss isn't banging his fist on the table for you, it won't happen. Also, the way you achieve your commitments does affect the perception and recognition of your efforts. That's the easy way out. Thanks for keeping this focused. In this testing times what will motivate the mgr to put you ahead of him/hers? Don't give up.I'd appreciate it if you'd do a similar post on the 65 to 65 transition. I've been at Microsoft six years.I've never spent one second honestly thinking about my career or how to get a promotion or anything like that. Judson Althoff. Fourth, repeat ad infinitum. Think of the guy in the other company, the guy who is building something that competes with you, with your team. Your manager has to know that either you get promoted sometime soon or you will go and get promoted somewhere else. As a L64 I find getting to 65 quite a wall. I've seen L65's who can't own a cardboard box, let alone a room.Well you know, don't go for them for advice! Because when it comes time to roll people out of the team (as teams do from time to time) this "No, never" a marker that is used to help figure out who - at I and II CSP levels - is either on-track or out. It took him at least two months to integrate. The hardest work item on his place was an expression parser that the team's architect wrote for him. Satya Nadella. Propose a new one and spend a day in implementing it. This will bump you off the fast-track 96% of the time.No matter how bad things are, always be positive, and provide a recommendation for how to address each problem. Executing on what you have now at a high rate/quality level.2. Levels are different outside the US. The first levels came quickly with some sticking around 64 and 65 (half my career).I have always taken on and fixed problem areas that no one else wants to take on. right?). It makes a difference in your relationship. Will some new person to the team who shows high growth potential push you aside even though you've been doing really solid work for years?Sometimes I wish it worked like an experience bar in a video game where you can clearly see when you will "ding". I give you the example from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/awaits "A busy day awaits" as evidence.So one legitimate missing punctuation mark, one matter of verbal interpretation, one popular idiom, and one completely correct phrase. Do you know why? If you want the longest Microsoft career possible, why advance any faster than you have to. Especially since the days of job title/level transparency.People should not forget that many times, higher levels do not equal higher pay. There is a comment about reporting to someone who is the same level as you are. Some are good at all. When you see a bozo who is L65 it is highly likely that he had joined MS recently at L64-L65 directly.Here's biggest difference in expectations between levels: The L62 guys are supposed to be able to lead their feature and perhaps influence couple of related features by spreading their best practices. Those people are almost all Level 62's with few prospects. If I'm going to be late delivering something, give folks advance notice.3. Both job switches came from conversations I had with former co-workers or former directors. Know Your Worth. If you want to succeed at Microsoft (or anywhere else where you have a boss), the most important thing you can do is figure out exactly what your management wants from you and then make sure you deliver it in spades.Junior people often make the mistake of thinking this means "I will do my job to the best of my ability" and then they go off and work really REALLY hard at things their management doesn't find nearly as important as they do and so come review time these folks are *shocked* to hear that all of their blood, sweat and tears did not make the impression they'd hoped. Mini-Microsoft, Mini-Microsoft, lean-and-mean! It may be that the policy is to do transparent leveling but it's no one's job to go through and make sure they're up to date. and you want to complete A and A requires 10 devs. Or - are they going to take the easy path and sack people in Europe and Asia? IMHO. The conclusion: its price today! I wasn't sure I was going to get out of a couple of those situations but after everyone of them, I was stronger and smarter.Take the challenge and go after tough problems. Given that quite a few Microsofties are going to find themselves locked into their current group for a while, the ability to succeed by swinging on the vines to a new group is going to be rare. Perhaps someone can explain to me how you get successfully promoted without your boss's support. For technical and management track, the job level start from 57 and continues till 80. Lots of very true points. Know where you are in the stack and understand how you will rank higher next year.BTW, forgot to mention I was a manager for the second half of my career. The average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, which is 65% lower than the average Microsoft salary of $500,742 per year for this job. There is only one item in this list: visibility. Title doesn't matter, that's a job description. Its, actually, quite a short list. This way I can be in a better position to show that I am a "absolutely!" Some are exceptional at one, and passable at others. They are the exception that you shouldn't wind yourself up about.And I don't want to focus on them anymore in this comment stream because it's not helpful. That figures. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work.So my question to the more experienced is this - how does one get the attention of management when they are focused on their own problems, their favorite underlings (of which I am not one), and when there is not enough work to go around?"1. Why cannot we have our address title reflect our level as everybody else in the company? Let's apply that stick to cronyism and punishment based management practicies. Unless you're an asshat, in which case see mini's comment about slapping yourself around and listening to what other's think about you.And in those huge orgs with all the noise it is really easy for folks to rest and *ahem* vest, so you are overlooked by default.The key as mini and others have stated is finding the tech and team you love and everything flows from there (because you will be so excited you will go home and work another 4 hours every night examining customer feedback, competitive products, etc. I've been told HR looks for employees that have been at their level too long. Isn't morale over the holidays going to be just wonderful? 4. Leadership: pro-active leadership that convinces team members of the future direction and even helps to . Jobs are leveled, not people - make sure the job you have includes the scope needed for the level you want. For those impatient folks who want to move up every 18 months, watch out. I am not saying the manager is trying to sabotage, but when push comes to shove will you get the impactful project. It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. Keep my word. Microsoft Director level role - Level 66 - what should I expect from COMP sideYOE-15Current TC- 235k I want them productive and about career success at Microsoft, especially your thoughts about achieving L63. The skills are different, and part of the failure of this company is exactly due to losing star individual contributors that become mediocre leads, in all disciplines. This is a great topic! Experienced Operations & Project Manager with a demonstrated history of working in the financial services industry. While I was pleased with the attention, I was also rather upset. I got involved in features up front, by spending time getting to know the PM team. When she finally left the company four years ago things improved greatly. I breezed to L63 and shortly after to L64 within a year. When does that year start? Working with high EQ allows you to collaborate better. I believe that the most fundamental difference between level 62 and 63 is in the realm of EQ (emotional quotient, see the book Working With Emotional Intelligence" by Goleman). Second, the perspective of a different team helps you generalize about best practices and what works and doesn't work. But the opportunities I see doing X seem to be compelling from a financial and growth standpoint. For me, it will take some serious job switching to get there. If you reach L63 during your time at Microsoft, especially if you started at L60 or below, you should celebrate. Regarding the comment about the ability to own a room - This is a very good self-calibration technique. I basically just hoped that hard work would get me ahead. Any idea on when is this going to change? When you take on the toughest problems that risk the product and make that problem go away, they are happy. I would get vague directives like you need to be the thought leader or you need to improve your system knowledge. I spend a lot of my time these days working with partner teams to help them solve their own problems or create wins for their teams even if it only peripherally touches my area. Any idea on when is this going to change? There's a reason why they had the kind of brand loyalty that Microsoft can only dream of.Success in business comes from serving your customers, not about beating your competition. As someone who left MS @ L63 - and supposedly tracking strongly to L64 - and who has seen a lot of questionable promos occur, I think it's fair to say that the rise to "Senior" follows a slighly skewed distribution curve in that in the largest bucket case, you can probably see that L63 was warranted.However, on either end of the distribution, by which I mean people who easily obtained it and people who seriously struggled to obtain it, there are some disturbing anomalies that are difficult to explain away.You might say, "I can live with the corner cases" and I would agree that optimizing for those isn't worthwhile.BUT! Years ago we had a dev on my team who was very high IQ and very driven, but was driving his lead nuts. They don't survive long while others who do little move up. Lots of terrible mid level managers at MS. To the person from MCS who said it was easy to get to 64 in MCS - MCSinTheFieldI agree with you there, you can get to a L64 in MCS but try to ever transfer to another org as a L64. also work is good only when it leads to results that typically means team's success. The education qualifications required for various roles for Technical track are: The highest job title in management track in Microsoft is "Vice President (VP)". But more likely youre displaying the hallmark of a weak performer described in the article of the same name (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL). This is so that they can convert those positions to other discipline.i've seen this happening to at least 2 teams so far. Maybe everybody's aware of being "in lockdown" and keeping their heads down? I sat there at L64 for 5+ years. My manager told me a while ago that I was about to get one. Is that a req. If you do not market yourself well, even if you are a superstar here at MSFT, your achievements might just go unrecognized (or they might be selectively recognized). But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work. Let's compare answers answer is: your boss. Had I only known this info when I started at Microsoft. And to your skip level. I also agree with the requests to have a discussion related to 65+.Anyway, I have seen a very healthy discussion going on here, and most of the thoughts I wanted to share have been mentioned. When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. You go along with a good boss/employee relationship then all of a sudden, it's like you killed his first born. Go for the team that offers the best package right during the transfer. "I'm in the 61 bucket and currently struggling with my team for many months. work on your visibility. I was an asshole, but I was better than my peers at getting shit done -- I was a PM in DevDiv at the time. You are now 20% closer to promotion just by a day of work :). >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. If you find a boss who likes the kind of work you can do, follow him/her wherever they go. As per Microsoft's job posting, the specific position requires over 8 years of experience so it pays high as well. Thanks.Sorry mini -- I meant the content of the comment I referenced, not the content of your original post (which I'm in violent agreement with). for people, who might claim that they do all this and still cant progress.. dude, either you are in wrong group or you have not introspected / taken feedback well or you are missing the whole thing by a mile. for 63 promo within a more clear timeline. Senior Director, Head of Data Sciences VMware Aug 2014 - Jul 20217 years Bengaluru Area, India Global Leader and Head of Data Sciences Lead Data scientist teams across Bangalore, Bulgaria, Palo. It's usually too late at that point. Think Locally: remember three years back when we talked about the book Corporate Confidential? Granted, you have to live in the greater NYC area, but it's a great place to be. I'm now off the meds, not seeing the psychiatrist, and living happily.Working at MS was both the best time in my life and the worst time. Make them successful at their job. When I was an IC, it was tough technical problems or simply critical problems that no one else wanted. A past co-worker of mine had the same thing done to him and now there are two devs doing what he did by himself.I guess Microsoft has its reasons. They want you to succeed, they want the team to succeed. If it is "Absolutely!" New Senior Director Human Resources jobs added daily. A Principal-level employee at Microsoft is someone who drives strategic efforts in their area of expertise. Successful people looooove to expound upon the secret to their success. Then follow Mini's advice and you should be all set. Any idea on when is this going to change? Proficient in product delivery, business & cost transformation, supplier management, client relationships and growth opportunities Working extensively at senior board level to deliver high value . There may be multiple reasons for pay differences - one of which is a small number of salaries submitted per job. So most new hires at MS are L63 by default and they obviously don't have to work at it :).I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.I would not give most of this advice to our campus hires as any kind of roadmap. After all, they are thinking through if you will be a good peer and will be easy to work with (and make their lives better in some way). Joined MCS at level 60 and was immediately told that L61 would be years away. Not only do I have a much more interesting job with much less BS, I make more money as well. Don't discount the power of a mgmt chain that believes in you. This slighlty contradicts some of the other posts. This is a really awesome post. Like another poster, I was a 64 who hit the "65 wall" after 10 years at MS. Answer to second question is never ever explicitly try to make yourself known to hierarchy above your manager. HC-freeze is already in motion, as is serioius savings in all FSC/COS - only thing still not explored is layoffs. You may be one of those who diligently turn over every single rock to look at problems within the org. Know when your market worth changes with our verified salaries newsletter, See exactly how much your competitors pay. The average entry-level engineer or program manager will have a total compensation of $125,665. Of course not. That is, its hard to define, but I know it when I see it. Its usually comes down to do it and be unhappy or leave. I am a troll. How long do people usually sit at L62 in MCS? I have had 3 positions in the past 8 years and best advise i can give is NETWORKING. Only one can emerge, and not everyone can be a senior simultaneously.